Transcript For Episode 1: The Impact of Kindness and Culture in Motherhood with Kay Middleton
Read the conversation for the podcast episode here!
It is very important to me that I can offer the Motherhood Minute community an accessible space online, when it is possible. I’ve decided to send out the transcript for Episode 1 of the Nurturing Spaces series: The Impact of Kindness and Culture in Motherhood with
This Season was created because I had some seasons I had time to listen to podcasts while driving, but most of my time, I have to read in increments. I hope to help you access these conversations easier but please let me know your feedback! The video should also have captions.
Transcript
Chanel Riggle (00:01.93)
Hey, got a minute? This is Chanel. Welcome to in this season, a podcast hosted for the motherhood minute community. Speaking of community, this is part of a series called nurturing spaces, building community in motherhood. Today we have Kate Middleton from the mom diaries on sub stack. Hi, Kate. Thank you so much for joining us. Um, I'm going to jump right into it.
Kay M. (00:24.014)
Hello, so good to be here.
Chanel Riggle (00:32.159)
Could you give our listeners a bit of background about who you are, where you live and the work that you are passionate about?
Kay M. (00:42.058)
Yeah, absolutely. So thanks so much for having me here, Chanel. It's so good to be on Motherhood Minute and to spend a little bit of time with everybody. So I'm Kay, Kay Middleton, and currently I'm a doctoral student in clinical psychology and I'm also a mom of two beautiful young daughters. I live out on the East Coast, so I'm, you know, 3,000 miles away from you, which is why technology is so nice, so we can connect.
Chanel Riggle (01:09.996)
I don't know.
Kay M. (01:12.522)
Yeah, and I write the mom diaries on Substack. So one of my central values as a mom, as a researcher, as a therapist in training is to build community. And I'm particularly...
interested and passionate about how moms come together in community and how we find friendship in motherhood. I think on a personal level it's not been as easy as I assumed it would be to find friendship in motherhood. Like I don't know back when I was single and I imagined what it might be like to be a mom I guess I just
Chanel Riggle (01:41.449)
Okay.
Yeah.
Kay M. (01:51.154)
I had no idea, but it's been harder to build community. And there's this saying that it takes a village to raise a child or to raise our kids. And finding that village hasn't been as easy as I perhaps hoped. So I'm interested in that from a research perspective, how does isolation affect our mental health as women and mothers, but also how does connection really positively affect our health too.
Chanel Riggle (02:19.822)
That's awesome, and that's one of the reasons I was really interested in talking to you. I haven't connected with you too long. I think it's only been like a month or two, honestly. I think it was around Christmas time where I found the Mom Diaries, and I just, I love how you are kind of building a little bit of community on Substack simply by just mentioning and calling writers out that you are also.
connecting with even if it's just a little bit and I appreciated that because it made me pause in a way I think social media doesn't make me pause and you know if You're on Instagram and you might like some videos that maybe a mom puts out and you're like, oh, yeah I connected with this person, but I loved how you kind of took that little extra step and then it made me think okay
What is Kay writing about? So I went back and then I realized, okay, yeah, I really connect with her. Yeah. No, I think it's great.
Kay M. (03:22.402)
Yeah, oh, I so appreciate that feedback. Yeah, thank you for telling me about that. I would say it's really.
It's important to me in this process of reading other moms' writings and connecting with people to really kind of get to know people. Even if that means I'm building a community or a base or whatever you want to call it slowly, it's so valuable to me to have authentic connection. And so I do genuinely read every single person that follows me. I go and I read their stories.
week. So I'm glad that meant something to you or that you liked kind of that I was tagging people and writers.
Chanel Riggle (04:08.218)
It does mean something to me. It makes me feel more connected with another mother and writer. And that's one of the reasons I was going to do just four interviews with women, which was difficult to narrow down. But for this topic, I was like, I just wanna try to do four.
Kay M. (04:11.391)
I'm sorry.
Chanel Riggle (04:33.15)
And then right after I decided that you came out with your piece on subset called allo parents. Is that how we're pronouncing it? And the octopus mom? Yes. And I just really felt compelled to talk to you about that more. Especially what you said about, you know,
Kay M. (04:45.715)
Yeah. Owl parents, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, that's a fun one.
Kay M. (04:56.341)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (05:01.334)
you thought community would be a little easier before you became a mom to build. And I was just having that conversation with someone, with a friend and with my husband like, man, I remember growing up and my mom had like a mom friend, but our families were like very interconnected. We were at their house, they were at our house. We were kind of like helping.
I was helping raise some of her kids. I was 12. Like it was very connected and I don't have any of that now. So I'm curious to know what made you want to write that. Sorry, I'm wiggling cause I'm sitting on a toddler chair. Like it's not a joke. Yeah, if you could give us a brief overview of the subject and what drew you to that, I would love for our listeners to have some background.
Kay M. (05:47.604)
love it. That's very apropos podcast.
Kay M. (06:00.994)
Yeah, absolutely. So there was an article in December on NPR's website about alloparents. And I believe they followed it with a second article also on the topic because it was so well received. I'm not really great with memorizing names at this point, so I don't remember exactly who wrote it. But I have it all cited in my article about alloparents and the octopus mom. So.
Chanel Riggle (06:25.941)
I'll link that for people. Yeah.
Kay M. (06:29.546)
Yeah, so if folks want to read that, please, I highly recommend reading the NPR original story and then I'd love for you to check out my story too. But yeah, so this article is talking about how from an evolutionary perspective, we are hardwired for connection and also as mothers in particular, we're hardwired to raise our children together in community. So...
um you know ancient in ancient civilizations and certainly from sort of a tribal perspective women um were raising their young together such that you would have several different women or allo parents allo is a greek word that means other um so several different parents you know attending to or raising one baby or young child throughout the day so you might have one mom or allo parent who's
the child and then after a couple hours when the child needs to be changed he or she's passed off to another mom and there's this real like group effort in
raising children and I was so struck by that you know as a doctoral student in clinical psychology yes but also as a mom that realization that sometimes it can feel so lonely when we're raising our children. I'm so fortunate I have a very hands-on husband so when he's home which he makes a point to be home a lot you know whenever he can we're both you know working out taking care
Kay M. (08:04.612)
and kind of like giving each other that support too, kind of more with mental health and with encouragement, that just seems so relevant to me. And so I wrote an article about it, yeah.
Chanel Riggle (08:17.006)
I love it. I am also very blessed to have a very hands-on husband, but I also have a mom who we send each other voice clips on Facebook Messenger, like every single day. And he jokes, you know, like, what are you possibly guys talking about every single day? I'm like, what are kids are eating? What they're not eating? Like how sp-
Kay M. (08:33.335)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (08:42.498)
tired we are. Sometimes it's really repetitive, but it's a lot of encouragement too. And I think it's like you said, there's this historic sense that we should be mothering as a community. And I think we've really lost that.
Kay M. (09:00.166)
Yeah, and I think it's good for the kids when we mother together and it's also good for each other. Like I feel like, I see this a lot as someone who works in healthcare, there's a real emphasis on you know the well-being of the child which is
obviously extremely important and something I support, but there's a little bit less research, a little bit less dialogue, or maybe even a lot less dialogue around the well-being of mothers and women. So this idea that once a woman has a child or a baby that it's like all the focus goes on the well-being of the child and the woman's, the mother's well-being is often forgotten.
Kay M. (09:47.56)
that we became even more fragmented, even more isolated from one another. And so now hopefully we'll see a little bit of a...
not just a return to baseline, but like more than that. Like I wanna see, and I'm sensing this even in our sub stack community, women are craving connection. We're craving that feeling of genuine friendship where we can support one another, to use your word, encourage each other like it sounds like you do with your friend through the Facebook clips. And just really be there for each other on an emotional, even spiritual level, if you will. I think that's so.
integral to the health of the mother and by extension the health of the children.
Chanel Riggle (10:32.47)
Yeah, I totally agree. I've always considered myself a mental health advocate. I've always been really interested in psychology because of my personal struggles and everything, but it really felt like there was this whole unspoken topic of mental health and motherhood until I became a mother. I'm very grateful for communities like Substack because it's...
actually a very common topic, which has been exciting. I wanted to dive in a little bit on, oh, sorry.
Kay M. (11:05.907)
It is and I like-
Kay M. (11:10.77)
Yeah, I just wanted to echo what you're saying. I totally agree with you. You know, I've had...
my own struggles at times and I'm a big advocate for therapy as someone who's done therapy as well as being a therapist in training and I agree with you that Substack I think you know even to use your word like nurture it's a more nurturing space I think than something like Instagram or TikTok is at least that's just my experience or my opinion. I like that Substack
and also provides these different formats, whether it's writing an article or posting a podcast episode. But I just wanted to echo that, yeah.
Chanel Riggle (11:57.103)
No, I agree on that. I wanted to dive in a little bit. I know you said you're working on a doctorate in clinical psychology, correct? Okay, just wanna make sure I got that right. So in your article, if you will, you cited a study that quote, observed 18 young children age zero to four for 12 hour increments. The study noted that
Kay M. (12:07.502)
Mm-hmm. That's right.
Chanel Riggle (12:25.262)
crying was virtually always responded to rapidly via comforting and never via scolding. Children received physical contact and care for the majority of the day. And I couldn't help but think about how it's not a complete thought, but I just couldn't help but automatically start thinking about the interesting relationship between
children needing comfort and when they are infants, there's a lot of talk about the love hormone oxytocin and there's not a lot of conversation about how mothers also need that comfort for themselves, especially I think in the first year of motherhood. And I found, you know, like in moments that I'm really stressed or just feel.
Kay M. (12:58.058)
action person, yeah.
Chanel Riggle (13:15.298)
touched out overloaded with my senses and motherhood. My friends have really helped soothe me and they've become even a digital world. It's like they're helping me learn how to self-regulate as a mom. As most of the focus, I think, is moms is on making sure our kids are comforted. So I'd love to know if you have any thoughts on that and how does having a community and parenting
Kay M. (13:34.462)
Mmm.
Chanel Riggle (13:45.142)
benefit us when it comes to, you know, learning how to regulate ourselves as moms.
Kay M. (13:54.374)
That's such a great question, Chanel. So first of all, the study that you're mentioning is the one that's sort of highlighted in the NPR article I was talking about earlier. So maybe we can put a link to that. Those links should be at the end of my Allo Parents article too. But yeah, so first of all, this is such a great point. So the article does touch on this research project where, to your point, babies were soothed very quickly. And they were...
you know soothe so they could stop crying. And I think what we're talking about here is this sort of this topic of affiliative behavior which is where we are you know connecting with each other in meaningful soothing ultimately in loving ways and it does calm our central nervous system it does calm you know our body down in a physical way and our body and our mind are so intertwined so
you know, having calmer emotions, your body is soothed, and so on and so forth. And so I'm really a big fan of attachment theory, where you know, Mary Ainsworth was a really significant researcher in the 20th century around this idea of attachment theory, and how when we're children, and certainly when we're babies, we're learning all about trust. And we're learning that through
children is their mother but not always. It can also be a father, grandfather, grandmother, etc. And then how we learn to attach as children or as babies affects how we form relationships as adults.
If we look at neuroplasticity and this idea that the brain can rewire itself to a degree, then we would hope that things like relationships and even like therapy would allow us to form healthier attachments if say we had a traumatic childhood or we didn't have a great bond with our caregiver. I think that friendship in motherhood is so key, Chanel, to your question because
Kay M. (16:11.88)
safe space for each other as moms, particularly I think when we're loving and kind and non-judgmental and really just empathetic with each other and I feel like that's almost really just the course for any type of healing whether you're doing therapy or you're talking about friendships.
Chanel Riggle (16:36.79)
Yeah, hopefully we don't have any connection issues right there, but I, so I marked that. Hopefully that's all smooth. But I love attachment theory. That was like one of the things that I clung onto when I started taking psychology courses. It felt very, not just relevant, but sometimes I think you read things and you're like, oh yeah, I can see how that theory like.
Kay M. (16:47.147)
Yeah.
Kay M. (16:55.81)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (17:04.982)
would make sense, but that one I was like, man, that one really makes sense as I'm choosing not only how to be a parent, but look back on my childhood, you know? And yeah, one thing I've personally noticed in motherhood too is a constant negotiation with where my energy can be spent. And I think building a
Kay M. (17:19.534)
Mm-hmm.
Kay M. (17:32.625)
Mm-hmm.
Chanel Riggle (17:33.938)
even though it's really hard and can feel like it's spending a lot of energy, especially if maybe you're more introverted than extroverted, is...
just where is my energy going? And so I'm curious about how you personally navigate those challenges in your own life and what you're learning about building your own community and motherhood, whether it's in person, digital.
Kay M. (17:52.922)
Totally.
Chanel Riggle (18:06.265)
How are you going about that navigation?
Kay M. (18:11.358)
Yeah, it's so hard. It's so hard to your point to think about where my energy is going. And building friendships and building community takes intentional, at least for me, takes intentional time and investment. You know, my weeks are really jam-packed with I have...
classes that I take as a clinical psychology student. I have undergraduates that I teach because I'm like a graduate teaching assistant. And then I have my clinical hours where I'm seeing patients and clients. So that's my kind of work umbrella. And then of course I have my beautiful family that I try to spend as much time with as I can. So how do we then also add in building community? And having that.
much needed friendship so that we have those allo parents. I would say for me, just naturally having my kids in school now. So I have a first grader and a pre-K, pre-K kids. So my kids are, you know, just starting school basically. And that's been a nice sort of entry point for me to meet other moms, particularly in town, but even that has had its challenges. So.
you know, I'm not picking my kids up every day from school. I'm picking them up three days a week. So I don't see moms all the time. But I do feel like I've gotten to meet some moms like at birthday parties or if my daughter says she's forming a friendship in school, I try to make a point to set up a playdate with her new friend or maybe the friend's mom calls me
Kay M. (20:01.692)
would say I have at least two moms that I feel like I'm fairly close with and like just the other day I was running late to pick up one of my kids and I was able to call her and say hey can you grab my kiddo and I'll be there in five minutes and she was like of course and so I had like a happy L.O. parent moment where I was like yay she's an L.O. parent so that's happening
Chanel Riggle (20:23.238)
That sounds like weather blasting.
Kay M. (20:29.098)
It was such a blessing. I was like, thank God. But by the same token, it's been freaking hard to make friends too. And I'll just tell you a quick story, which is actually sort of the seed for why I even started my mom diaries sub stack. So over last summer, so we're in February now. So this was this past June.
Chanel Riggle (20:32.041)
No.
Kay M. (20:54.734)
my oldest had just finished kindergarten and it had been a really nice year overall. She had a nice class, lots of play dates, I had gotten to know the moms of the girls in the class and there were I think 13 or 14 girls in her class. It's kind of a lot of girls and so a lot of girl moms. And I thought that we were like a group, kind of nothing felt clicky and then all of a sudden
Kay M. (21:24.788)
of the moms that like maybe three or four of us got left out and by us I mean mothers of girls and I was surprised so there was one woman who was sort of organizing this clique and she for whatever reason left me and these couple other moms out and the way I found out was I was on Instagram and I saw a picture of them pop up doing a social event together
And in that moment, I just felt like my stomach drop and I had this whole wave of like self doubt and feeling bad about myself and like panic almost like, oh my God, I was left out of this group. Like I thought we were friends. Did I do something wrong? Like, what is it about me? And it was a really low point for me, you know, if I was to look at the year as a whole.
And so that clique formed and luckily like our kids still play together and stuff, but there was a definite mom group that formed. And what was unfortunate is that the three or four of us moms that were excluded, we felt really bad about it. And we, you know, sort of have talked about it since then. So that was a not so great example of where on the other end of the spectrum feeling like isolated for a minute there.
Chanel Riggle (22:49.134)
That is really hard and that is something, you know, my daughter is just about to turn three. That's not really something I've experienced, but I feel like it's going to happen. And it makes me nervous. And thank you for sharing that difficult situation because I think it's really important to see both sides of things. I don't think we have to be friends with everybody, but I do feel like there needs to be.
more conversation about and learning how to, you know, develop different communities, different circles. I so that we can teach our daughters what that looks like. I grew up with, you know, maybe a close friend for like three years, but it was never a good, healthy friendship. And I
Kay M. (23:35.277)
Mmm, yeah.
Chanel Riggle (23:47.21)
I've always struggled with making close friends. And I'm very blessed to have, you know, one or two moms that I can really talk to about stuff without having to make a new bridge in conversation, you know? And it's interesting how we can be
Kay M. (24:03.135)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (24:17.082)
often put back into a place that we might have experienced as a child being left out of a group and then feel that again as a mother in a different way but also be worrying about our children's welfare and how they're feeling too.
Kay M. (24:25.545)
Yeah.
Kay M. (24:34.682)
Definitely, like I think my first feeling, so I was like, when I saw this post on Instagram, this shocking post with, you know, bunch of the moms together and not having been invited, I was at the town pool and I was just like, sitting in my lawn chair while the kids played in the pool and I joke about it but I'm like, thank God there were lifeguards because I think I checked out for like a good 15 minutes there just like in shock.
But I felt it physically in my body, like my palms were sweaty, my stomach dropped, like this feeling of like being left out and it was reminiscent of, you know, a years old ache, like it took me straight back to middle school, which is where I remember that feeling most significantly, you know, those early teen years. So
Chanel Riggle (25:03.08)
Yeah.
Kay M. (25:24.73)
it really, it's a real thing that happens. I think for me, when I try to make a group, because I do, to your point, I do think we don't have to be friends with everybody. I think that we naturally gravitate towards some people and not others, and that's okay. But I just think when we make any type of group, it can be helpful to think of it as like a horseshoe rather than a circle that's exclusive.
I just, that's just me and that's how I, you know, do things when I, when I organize an event or whatever I typically say, you know, if you know somebody who'd like to come to this another mom or something, you have a friend, please feel free to invite them, you know, unless it's like something where you can only have a certain number, whatever. But I don't like to form groups that feel exclusive or cherry picked.
Kay M. (26:24.42)
feel like I'm in or I'm out and that to me isn't really what community and belonging is about.
Chanel Riggle (26:31.114)
I love how you describe that the horse shoe. Yeah, I, I love that. Because, you know, I so I was a business owner, my husband, I owned a business for about four and a half years. And so I spent almost five years learning how to network with people who were either business owners themselves, or just networking on behalf of their company. And
Kay M. (26:32.962)
What do you think?
Chanel Riggle (27:00.342)
That's one thing I learned is, you know, it's okay to have a group of maybe two people facing each other because you learn, okay, if they're facing each other, they're having a closed conversation. And that's okay, you know, but if you're, you know, in a networking event and you see two people who aren't quite facing each other, they're more open like in a
a V shape or you have three people that they're leaving it open, like you said, a horseshoe shape. There's, you can have kind of a private conversation, but it still invites people to not feel like, oh, I can't go over there. Can't go over there. It's too isolating. They're obviously don't want to be disturbed. And that felt really great to learn. It felt like so simple. But
Kay M. (27:34.38)
Yeah.
Kay M. (27:50.316)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (27:56.214)
when I learned out of this not working event, oh my goodness, I wish I had known this earlier. And then, you know, that's one thing. Yeah, one thing too, and this is literally a decision that I made kind of spur of the moment this past week, beginning of February is I decided specifically for Motherhood Minute on Substack.
Kay M. (28:02.957)
Yeah.
Kay M. (28:06.152)
That's such a great point.
Chanel Riggle (28:24.718)
to no longer ask people to subscribe to access a paywall. I had my writings, I never know what to call them, newsletters, writings, pieces, essays. I had them go under a paywall after a month. And I was comfortable with that, but I realized around Christmas, I took the restriction off everything.
Kay M. (28:40.174)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (28:52.286)
and I started meeting so many new people who I've, I've had some people who subscribe or follow and I'm not really sure how we might connect, but that's fine. You know, that's cool. I'm excited that they're here. But I have just all of a sudden had this influx of more genuine connections. And I realized for other projects, I'm totally fine with that paywall, but.
Kay M. (28:54.007)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (29:19.282)
If Motherhood Minute has always had the goal of building community and having hard conversations, the last thing that I personally want to do is create a click online, as you put.
Kay M. (29:33.258)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (29:36.682)
Yeah, so, um.
Kay M. (29:37.838)
That's so refreshing.
Chanel Riggle (29:40.374)
Yeah, I'm just, it's all an experiment. I don't know what I'm doing. This is all an experiment. I don't want anyone to think that I have any grandiose plan of what I'm doing here. I'm just having fun.
Chanel Riggle (29:57.808)
Um, well,
Kay M. (29:57.818)
I love that and I really like your word experiment.
Chanel Riggle (30:03.338)
Yeah, it takes a lot of pressure off. Um, whether it's like parenting decisions, professional decisions, whatever, whatever you have, you know, like just an experiment. If this doesn't work this week, we will come back to the drawing board.
Chanel Riggle (30:21.642)
Kate, we have a few minutes and I had just a couple more questions that I want to ask before we wrap up. The first one is I'd love to know what is one thing you would like to set down and one thing you would like to pick up in life in this current season?
Kay M. (30:21.642)
Yes, absolutely.
Kay M. (30:48.695)
Um, so set down would mean sort of like give it a rest or take a break from.
Chanel Riggle (30:54.41)
Um, I'll, I'll tell you what mine is. So I, yes, I would love to set down bitterness and pick up more gratitude in the season. I realized toward the end of 2023, I had a lot of bitterness and I don't really know where it was coming from. So I'm trying to set that down. I'm also trying to set down sugar. If you want to take it literally, it's not going well. Had a cookie today.
Kay M. (31:18.254)
Ha ha!
tough one, the sugar. Cool, yeah. Well first of all I love the question because any question that kind of gets me to think from that bird's eye perspective too about my life and where I'm going directionally, I always appreciate that. I guess in terms of setting down stuff, I'm sort of... I have this thing where I like, I really like things to be like...
cleaned up and tidy. And most of the time it's like not because I have kids making messes and I'm just not a machine with the dishes, stuff like that. But I get like.
stressed out about it. Like when I visual clutter and I wish I could turn the camera for a second so you could see my desk because there's clutter everywhere but visual clutter stresses me out and so I get you know irritable at the people in my life like my family members. Oh can somebody clean that up or why is there a pile of shoes over there I told you to pick it up or something like that. So I do have some intentionality that I kind of articulated in the beginning of the new
year of like okay I want to be less stressed out about messes either I'll ask somebody to clean it up once or I'll just do it or I'll just try to work on acceptance and kind of breathing through it rather than nagging everybody about it because that just creates more chaos so I think that's something I'm trying to set down is not to be as stressed out about messiness
Kay M. (33:00.91)
Physically and visually in my life, you know messiness around the house And then in terms of picking something up My my word of the year is kindness and I like to think of myself as a pretty open-hearted person But I want to be more intentional with my kindness this year than I have perhaps in the past whether that's something as seemingly small as you know
opening the door for somebody who's carrying a tray of coffees out of the coffee shop or maybe buying a drink for somebody who's standing in line behind me at the coffee shop or just trying to extend myself in small ways that are really symbolic of love and kindness. And so I'm trying to pick that up.
Chanel Riggle (33:54.574)
Mmm.
Chanel Riggle (33:58.142)
I love that. Me too. Count me in. Well, Kate, thank you so much for joining me. If you have any final thoughts that you'd like to share, is there anything you'd like to say to the mothers in this space who either are reading or listening about how to build community or sustain community and motherhood?
Kay M. (34:03.084)
Yeah.
Kay M. (34:28.726)
Yeah, well first of all, thank you, Chanel. I think this is a really great project that you're doing and I love that you're bringing moms on to talk about this topic of how we support each other and nurture each other. I think being able to find someone you connect with or find multiple people you connect with where you have that safe space to be honest and be raw.
I think that's really important as a mom. So that's something that I look for and try to do in my own life. And also always sort of, you know.
hope that others can find that sort of genuine, authentic connection. Because I think that's where we get to talk about the hard stuff, to your point earlier, and we get to work through that hard stuff and be encouraged. Because if we don't talk about it, it kind of builds up and comes out in ways that aren't healthy, perhaps. Whereas when there's sort of that flow, that openness, we can talk about what's difficult. Because being a mom is really hard.
is hard. Like suffering is part of being human and so the question is do we have people in our life who we can talk to the messiness about and then receive love and encouragement back and hopefully we can be that for somebody as well.
Chanel Riggle (35:56.654)
That's so lovely. What a lovely end note on that. Thank you. Yeah, I and that's one of the reasons I wanted to I was trying to think, you know, I don't want to just call it like the build community series. And I was thinking, like, when I think of building community, what do I really want? And I've written about this a lot, like, I just want to be held, whether that's somebody listening or just talking and saying something that feels
Kay M. (36:03.426)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (36:25.842)
even if it's a little ugly, something that's very relatable, especially in the season of motherhood and just motherhood in general.
Kay M. (36:36.78)
Yeah.
Chanel Riggle (36:40.858)
Thank you so much, Kay. And yeah, I'll link all of your stuff in the show notes and the email newsletter I put out. And I just really appreciate your time and thank you for experimenting with me on this new platform.
Kay M. (36:41.87)
Totally. And I.
Kay M. (37:00.258)
Definitely always and I hope we can do this again soon because it's been really fun Talking to you and you have so much to offer. So thanks for doing this for all of us moms
Chanel Riggle (37:13.234)
Aw, thanks.
Thank you for reading the latest episode from the podcast “In This Season” with Kay M! Will you support the project? You can read more about where the money goes to here.
Thanks for the transcript Chanel! What a rich and loving conversation. I so enjoyed getting to know you and Kay through your time together. Beautiful!