Transcript for Episode 5: Exploring Digital and In-Person Connections

Read the full interview with Heidi here!

It is very important to me that I can offer the Motherhood Minute community an accessible space online, when it is possible. Here is the full transcript for Episode 5 of the Nurturing Spaces Series with Heidi Fiedler. Listen to it and get her links to connect here.

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Chanel Riggle (00:02.69)

Hey everyone, do you have a minute? Welcome to the podcast in this season. I am your host, Chanel Riggle And today we are wrapping up the series, nurturing spaces, building community and motherhood. Please join us at motherhood minute on sub stack to read this conversation and see what the other mothers have had to share during this whole series. I'm really excited today. I have Heidi here with me. And today we're going to be talking about, um,

the digital space a little bit more, as well as creativity when it comes to building community and motherhood. Thank you so much for being here, Heidi Fiedler. Could you give our listeners a little bit of background about who you are, where you live, and the work that you do?

Heidi Fiedler (00:47.498)

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm Heidi, I am a writer, an editor, a mom. My son is six years old, he's autistic, and we live about an hour west of Boston in a little suburb. I grew up in California and I am still getting used to living in Massachusetts after 10 years. And everything feels really, really busy usually.

Chanel Riggle (01:17.37)

I did the opposite. I grew up in Ohio, and then I moved out to the West Coast in Washington. So we did an opposite sort of swap.

Heidi Fiedler (01:26.698)

Little bit.

Chanel Riggle (01:29.49)

And what kind of work have you been doing on Substack specifically?

Heidi Fiedler (01:35.306)

I started my sub stack about six months ago and I started with an interview series. I wanted to interview a hundred creative mothers and pull all those interviews into one place. Like to have, I almost was thinking of it as like an online virtual museum, like where you could walk into this gallery and see all these different kinds of mothers who are making space for creativity in like really small ways, like telling a kind of wacky bedtime story, but also in bigger ways, painting or writing or whatever their practice is.

Chanel Riggle (02:15.994)

I really love that one. I've always considered myself a creative person, but it wasn't until I became a mother that I kind of claimed that title of creative for myself. And that felt really important because sometimes creativity looked like painting, and sometimes creativity looked like making a new recipe with what we had in our pantry.

and trying to be as creative as possible with that little domestic piece of my life because I had no capacity or time to do any other creative work.

Heidi Fiedler (02:58.302)

Yeah, there's so much problem solving and making new connections as a mom that like, you're just, you're going to be creative no matter what you, if you're paying attention and you're responding to your kids who are naturally creative, like you will be creative in the moment. And I hear from a lot of women that felt called to be more creative, to do bigger things, to be more ambitious once they became mothers, even though there's a lot of expectation that like you might not have any time for that or you might not be able to fit that into your life. A lot of people felt way more compelled to do that than they ever had before.

Chanel Riggle (03:36.71)

Why do you think that is?

Heidi Fiedler (03:41.262)

I know for me it is having a thing that is mine. Like I was always doing creative work. I had a ostensibly creative job as a writer and as an editor. It looked creative from the outside. It didn't always feel creative to me because a lot of it was working on other people's projects or in someone else's voice.

And as a mom, like I just have so many demands on me and so many interruptions and so many moments when I'm putting my needs aside or my preferences aside to help my son or just make things easier for our family and having something where I get to make all the decisions and I get to say, this is my world and I'm just gonna escape into it for, even if it's five minutes, it feels really precious to me. And it also feels like

There's so many times when I have to bite my tongue or I'm just I'm distracted with the immediate needs that are like right in front of me. I don't get a chance to articulate some of the wisdom that I've gained along the way as a mom and I want to have some way to share that with the world and to...tell myself like that is real experience and it matters and I want to take my own ideas seriously.

Chanel Riggle (05:04.946)

I love that you're acknowledging there's that need and you're also documenting it. And I definitely get that sense in your interviews that I've read as well between your conversations with other mothers who are doing what they can to be creative, whatever that looks like. How do you find those collaborations and how do you just facilitate that? What is this project process like? I'd love to know more.

Heidi Fiedler (05:35.878)

Yeah, I think I'm naturally like a person who just likes to introduce people that should know each other. And I like collaborating in my real life. I like working with my writing friends. I like working with clients. I just like that. Back and forth and like getting to know someone and trade ideas and a lot of the people that I've interviewed I have found on Substack. Substack has been a really open, lively place to collaborate. But I've also totally just reached out to people that I've like heard on a podcast or read their essay in Lit Hub or something and said like, oh this person seems like they're already thinking about creativity and motherhood. Maybe they would want to join the project and whenever someone submits their answers I'm I always feel like a little honored and like it's a treat to get to be the first one to read the answers. And I'm always thanking them. Like this is really truly a collaborative project. There's no way I could do this alone. And every time someone adds their voice and it's a different experience, they're bringing their own passions and interests and everything into the conversation. It just feels like it enriches. And I hope that they feel like they are part of something too.

It's really like on a surface level it could look like I'm interviewing 100 people and I'm putting them up on a blog, but really I feel like what we're doing is much more substantial and it's shining a light on people and ideas that maybe don't always get to share their work in this larger way.

Chanel Riggle (07:17.446)

You're helping other mothers feel seen. I think that's such important work.

Heidi Fiedler (07:23.73)

And it's so encouraging when you see someone else made it work. Like it might not be exactly like your life. Your way of making it work might be very different, but just knowing it's possible and that other people are integrating it, even if it's not easy, that feels really encouraging, at least to me to see it over and over and over too. It's like, you can't miss it.

Chanel Riggle (07:49.474)

Yeah, I don't think anyone I've interviewed or talked to on Substack so far has said, oh, it's so easy to integrate motherhood with anything else. And I, like you said, yeah, like you said, it's, it's the hope, it's the possibility. And at least for myself, ever since I had my daughter, Eliza, our seasons can last two weeks. Our seasons can last six months.

you have to be creative to accept that life is gonna require flexibility. And we can dig our heels in or we can think, how can I be creative about this? How can I be creative about when I'm going to write? Is it going to be on my phone while I'm nursing a child or is it going to be my daughter and I making a mess in the kitchen together?

There's so many opportunities to learn that flexibility, I think, just through practicing creativity.

Heidi Fiedler (08:56.23)

Yeah, and I think, at least for me, I kind of went in feeling like I needed to stay the same person, or somehow I needed to prove I worked in the same way. I could do the same thing.

I was just sort of like adding motherhood on top of everything else. But it's so much messier than that. And I hear from a lot of people that they change genres or they tried a different medium or they put a big project on hold and they're doing something like small that feels approachable for a while. And then they're going to go back to this more ambitious project when they have more energy or time. And I think.

we could all save ourselves some pressure and grief. If we went in knowing that things might not look at all the same, and that doesn't mean you're not a writer, it doesn't mean you're not an artist, it means you're evolving and you will have fresh inspiration and new things to try. And that's exciting. It doesn't mean you failed in any way, but it can feel like that going in.

Chanel Riggle (10:05.778)

I think a big revelation I had, I had two in the first 12 months of being a mother. The first one happened very quickly. I was experiencing a lot of anger, which was grief about, like you said, I was like, I'll just add motherhood on top of everything else. It was as if I was struggling with this identity.

Um, and, uh, that accepting the fact that I was a mother, as strange as that sounds, because obviously I had just given birth and I had a child that I was taking care of 24 7, but I still had to accept that I was a mother to begin with. And um, about 12 months later, I had this, for me, it felt like a revelation where I realized

Motherhood isn't just another thing on my list. I've expanded. It was an expansion of self. And once I realized that it wasn't necessarily like a role and it was an expansion, it felt like things got a little bit easier. By no means are they easy now, but it felt like it got easier for me to process what my creativity was going to be like or what my life was going to be like.

because I realized, well, if I'm a mother now and that's just something that I've taken on versus I'm a mother and I've expanded and I have more room to do things. I have more room to learn and make mistakes and more love to give and all this stuff that felt very important for me to process. And I think creativity has been such a vital part in that process. What are some of the things that you hear from the mothers that you interview about the relationship between motherhood and creativity? Are there like any common things that come up?

Heidi Fiedler (12:13.582)

I think, yeah, I mean, it feels like almost silly how parallel they are. Like, if you are a new, like a new to creativity, if you don't think of yourself as creative, you probably are more creative than you realize. And when you start like noticing that you are being creative in, in like your daily life.

and you start seeing how you're still able to make some progress in your creative practice, whatever that is, you start noticing so many similarities. Um, for me, it's a sense of like, I, I have a vision for my family. I have a vision for what my son can grow up to do.

And the values that I want to share with him. And I have a vision in my work. I have something that I want to bring into the world. And I don't do that by forcing it, by controlling it and like...pushing through. It happens by holding the vision and showing up every day and gently reminding myself and my family, like, this is possible, this is where we're headed. And it doesn't make it easy or, like, effortless by any means. But to me, like, that energy is very similar. And then on the, like, micro skill, there's just so many times when you are using the same skills to...figure out how to like.

Heidi Fiedler (13:51.23)

make something work if their toy broke or you're trying to figure out how someone can share something with someone they don't want to share. And then you're struggling with a sketch that you're like, why does this line keep feeling too long? It's the same energy that you're bringing to that process of like, well, let me look at everything in front of me. Let me be curious. Let me be open-minded. Let me maybe even be a little bit playful and do something that doesn't seem like it should make sense in the moment.

but it does unlock something. All of that feels really similar to me. And so many people in the interviews that I've done have said, like, they are...drawing inspiration from their kids in a really deep way, not just like, oh, I noticed this funny anecdote and I wrote it down. Like, that's like fun too, but they're drawing inspiration from how their kids move through the world and their relationships and what they're building with their kids. And they want that to be in their work. And it's, it's really amazing how much wisdom and how much creativity that people can bring to their work when they're paying attention to their families and learning from being mothers.

Chanel Riggle (15:07.778)

Wow, that's beautiful. That's so beautiful. Today I wanted to also focus on how we can use digital spaces, as well as in-person connections, but I really wanted to talk to you about the digital space and fighting isolation in motherhood, which can happen a lot. It doesn't matter what stage I think of motherhood you are at. How...

Can our listeners use art, creativity, and the digital space to support one another?

Heidi Fiedler (15:46.674)

I think so much of art is like sharing something and then someone else says, me too, like I feel that way too, or I see things that way. And so sharing your art online is often a way to start that conversation with someone that you don't even know is out there, but it can build real relationships. And

Um, I can say in my case, like, I, I know a couple like real life moms that are making things and painting or, you know, adding that into their lives in some ways, and those are like good friends. Those are, I'm not dismissing that, but there's

so much more like I found so many more connections online because I'm able to say like, hey, this is what I'm interested in. And also we can talk like totally asynchronously for me being able to like do Marco Polo or to text someone like or do DMs or whatever. Like I can kind of keep up with that. Like not great, but kind of I, I'm not in like the pickup line and I can't talk to anyone then.

I don't have any real life time that I can stand around and chat or take a walk. There's a neighbor that I would love to take a walk with all the time and it's just not gonna happen. So for me, this is a way to have those conversations. And it's also, there's these little micro communities that I'm...

learning from other moms that have autistic kids, or I learned from other families that have different kinds of neurodivergences in their families, and it's, that's really energizing and inspiring for me too. And I think it would be harder to make some of those more specific connections in real life. I was never someone that like, wanted to go to like a baby mom's group, like when our son was born, that just felt like...

I'm an introvert, like I don't really need that kind of like forced friendship or just like it just sounded like another thing to do too much work and like I was tired. So I didn't go to any of those but as he got older and as I got more like I don't know if I was busier or if I was just deeper into some of these challenges, it did feel really good to meet other moms that got it and that I could talk about silly things, frivolous things, and also more serious things.

Chanel Riggle (18:17.41)

I think that's something I've really enjoyed about...connecting with moms over the digital space, specifically Substack, is I have more time to respond and it's not going to be a jumbled response because I'm sure everyone can tell on the podcast I make a lot more pauses than maybe some other people because I'm often struggling to just hold my attention and.

I want to make sure that what I'm saying not only makes sense, but is conveying what I'm thinking, you know? Whereas what I'm writing, I can just like, I can do so much more in a response and I can really think about it and I love that I'm able to share it with a diverse group of people too. You know, if we're in person and we're...connecting with someone that's wonderful, that's so necessary and needed, but at the same time, it is amazing to be able to, let's say, read an essay or see a piece of art online and then go and share it with other people that we know. And it's not just promotion, it's having more discussions.

Then if my child's in front of me and I'm trying to have a conversation with someone like, oh yeah, we saw this like really great thing and I'm like, mama, you know. It's like I'm trying to hold my focus to my daughter because I want to know, I want her to know that I want to communicate with her and I want to spend time with her but at the same time it...my adult relationships suffer. And so that's been such a benefit for me for the digital space is I can take my time. I can share other people's work and it's been really fulfilling in the season. Hopefully I get more in-person relationships again, but we'll just have to see.

Heidi Fiedler (20:37.495)

I think, yeah, I don't know if those relationships come back, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

I've found for myself, I've written a few essays that felt very personal or revealing, or at least conveyed something about my experience that just is not possible, like you're saying, when you're having a play date or whatever. And when I've sent that to someone I know in real life, I feel like it gives them a look into who I am. And even if we never talk about it again, it's a way to add some dimension and like remind them there's a lot more to who I am and what I experience than what they might see during a play date or whatever our interaction is.

Chanel Riggle (21:26.65)

I think that's something I've also really enjoyed about being a writer online, especially through the Substack community that I'm connecting with is the fact that probably some of my email subscribers, they might know more in-depth things about me than maybe like my neighbor does. They for sure do because I'm much more confident when I can take my time and write about something that is very meaningful to me. And yet I, even though I'm putting this out into the public for anyone to see at any moment, it's still very...nerve-racking in some ways to think, you know, that maybe somebody that I encounter with all the time in the in-person space would say, hey, now I know all of this about you.

Heidi Fiedler (22:29.003)

Yeah, if you didn't get the link directly from me, like maybe don't bring it up, but I appreciate you reading it!

Um, well, you talked a little bit about energy. One thing I've noticed personally, uh, is where my energy is being spent is a big deal. I, in the beginning of motherhood, as you also said, I very much saw motherhood as just something extra that I was taking on when it was way more than that. And I've also become extremely aware of how...

how my energy, my capacity to do things affects me. Whether it's work, my role as a parent or a spouse or a friend, as a creative person, I feel like I'm constantly negotiating where that energy goes. I'm curious if and how you navigate those challenges in your own life and what you might be learning as you go.

Heidi Fiedler (23:37.894)

Yeah, I definitely like a thousand times have that challenge. And like for me sometimes it's not even like what do I do with my energy? It's like I have an hour, do I take a walk? Do I do work? Do I stretch? Do I do something creative? Like...

I only have an hour to choose one and it's so hard sometimes. Um, and I think I used to get a little bit more like caught up in how do I maximize this time? Like it's so scant, but I think I have gotten a little better about thinking whatever I do during that hour is okay. There's no right answer. There's no perfect way to spend that hour.

And I mean, for me, it's a real struggle when I feel like I know what I need, but I just can't get it. There's no way I'm going to be able to sit down and journal or take a walk or do whatever would feel good right then. And I guess that's not a very encouraging answer. That's something like I still struggle with. But what I have found is that

I think mentally we often tell ourselves that some of the very things that would feel good and actually give us energy are going to take more energy. And so we can talk ourselves out of writing a poem or working on our sketchbook or whatever, because we think like, oh, I got to be in like a certain kind of energy to do that, or that's going to be draining because... I'm using a part of my brain or I don't, you know, we just like have a million reasons why that's not a good idea right then. But if we can put that aside and even do it for 10 minutes, it will not just give us energy, but it, at least for me, it leaves me feeling softer and like I can handle bumps.

Even though it's not like this direct thing that I did to resolve whatever the issues are, whatever is causing me to feel so exhausted, it still somehow helps me keep going.

Chanel Riggle (26:05.538)

Isn't it interesting how we can often be so aware of how these things help our children, especially, you know, if they have a lot of like sensory issues like, oh, I am educated now I've done some research on ways that we can like help calm you down, like, bring you back to level and sometimes that's

you know, sitting in a dimly lit room and your, my daughter has these little like story time, it's like a block and you put the character on and it can sing songs or tell a story. And that's kind of like in her unofficial calm down toy basket because if she's just losing it and I'm losing it, we just like kind of turn all the lights off and we just listen to something calming. But then when it comes to you know, or she'll color, she really likes coloring and everything. But when it comes to giving ourself permission, if you will, to do the same thing, be like, ah, no, I really should be maximizing this time right now. Like maybe, maybe I can like do something that is just gonna just really make this hour count instead of seeing how beneficial it would just be like. Maybe just rethink what rest looks like at this moment so that we can regroup.

Heidi Fiedler (27:31.818)

Absolutely. Yeah. It is, I think, maybe it's like a generational thing too, but I, I feel like a Pang, like I didn't get to do those things that I'm making space for my son to be able to do so that he can regulate and not get overextended and all of, and that doesn't mean it's working even 100% of the time, but like he's getting so many more permission slips and breaks and those accommodations than I ever did. And I'm happy to be able to give that to him, but it's still a learning process, I think, as adults to say.

Also, at least for me, it's like I very quickly go from like, I need this, so I need to do it for an hour and I don't have an hour, so it's not happening. But a lot of times, like two minutes of stretching would actually still make a difference. And I am really trying to get better at like saying, well, I do have two minutes and I'll just do what I can in two minutes.

Chanel Riggle (28:39.686)

We can have a whole conversation about what rest looks like and if we can give ourselves permission to rest. I wanted to know, do you have any final thoughts that might help mothers in the digital space learn how to build or maintain community in motherhood? Because I think we've had some really amazing commentary from other women that I've interviewed. We've had women, you know,

A lot of it has been about having space, whether it's just listening, having open, honest conversations with mothers, inviting mothers into that conversation who might not have the same lifestyle or background out of us that is very evident as being important in these conversations, as well as kindness. Kindness is so important too.

I'm just wondering if you had any final thoughts to kind of help us wrap up this beautiful conversation we've been having this month.

Heidi Fiedler (29:51.798)

Well, I was thinking when I first saw you were doing this series about building community, like I didn't know if I fit immediately. Like I did not set out to build a community and I didn't think of my readers as a community. I had a email newsletter list for a long time and I only just moved it over to Substack few months ago, and I've had a few other friends be like, no, I think you actually are making a community. And once I started like trying to think about that in that way, I think I was kind of getting hung up on a community was either something in real life, like you go to an event with a bunch of people in a room and you chit chat, or a community could be like a Facebook group where there's like a lot of comments going on back and forth. But that's not really what my community is. And I think what I realized is like, it's possible to build a community that's quieter, but it's still based on shared experiences, shared values, shared interests. And sometimes the conversation is happening in the comments and it's lively and it feels genuine and you are remembering familiar faces, you're getting to know people over time.

But sometimes it's happening in our heads. Like we read the post and then we're like thinking about that person throughout our week or like a month later when you see something that reminds you of them.

And that's real too. Like I think sometimes we undervalue that because it's not as visible, it's not monetized in any way. And it doesn't feel as real, but I think it is real. And when I think of that kind of community, I'm definitely building that. And I feel really proud that it's something that is truly bringing value and inspiring people, making people feel connected to people they didn't even know existed before they read about them.

Chanel Riggle (32:11.238)

Absolutely. I like I said, I would definitely say you are building your own community. I never thought of myself as building a community and it really just recently I've realized, oh, wait a second. I am and the conversation might not always be even.

I don't hear back from every single person who reads what I put out. And sometimes I hear back from people and it just blows my mind. Anytime someone presses the reply button on an email or they comment on something I've put out, I'm very humbled and honored because I'm like, who am I? But I've realized...

My readers are following me in the same way that I'm reading other people's work and I'm consuming it because I really want to Understand who people are in a different level and that's definitely possible with in-person community in-person friendships and family, but it is very different and it feels like a Privilege and a beautiful opportunity that I can do that in the digital space. Like you said, the words that you might put out in a blog post, they might be a lot more of the in-depth view of you than maybe a comment, conversation that you have in passing with someone who you see often. And I think there's also the sense that we're shortening the time it takes to build.

a close relationship like that when it's online, not always, but it's been really cool how I've made friends who live across the country, who live across the world, you know, Australia and Europe, and I've been able to have these really in-depth conversations with them, but I've never met them in person. And what a privilege that we can live in a time like this. It's just...mind-boggling to me that I have this privilege.

Heidi Fiedler (34:35.742)

Yeah, I think we're lucky and we're just learning how to live in this kind of community. I know that a lot of people, myself included, it's easy to struggle with the like content overwhelm and like just feeling like how can I even hold 200 people's faces or names in my head or you know I can't like have that many relationships that's not how my body is built

Heidi Fiedler (35:05.616)

relationships and I don't think we always have to know exactly what it's going to lead to if it feels good and it feels Like it's something we don't know what it is but it still feels like something interesting and good then we just keep doing it and we don't have to have like a Theory a great theory about it

Chanel Riggle (35:28.594)

too for anyone who's been listening to the series or reading it to remind ourselves that as you said community doesn't have to be one specific thing. It doesn't have to be you know this amazing community that you know Zoe has made for example when I interviewed her I'm just completely obsessed with the work she's doing in her in-person community as well as the digital space but I also love what all these other women are doing how they are kind of fulfilling this need we have as humans, as mothers to build relationships. And when it comes to the digital space, you don't need to have a, I don't want to say 100%, but you don't need to have every single name memorized. You don't need to know everybody's full life story.

I think learning to accept that community can look like a very in-close, in-person relationship with one or two people, or it can look something completely different where, you know, you're on Substack or Instagram or in a Facebook group and you're all kind of having a discussion about a very specific interest or part of your life and that's okay. And I think, um...Just learning to accept that as okay is a big part of building community online, at least for myself, that's what I've seen.

Heidi Fiedler (37:07.674)

Yeah. And I think like, it's easy to feel like, um, the way brands do community or the way brands show up online is how we should aspire to do community or we should show up online in some way. And maybe we should be showing up in a totally different way, but even if you don't want to argue that far, like, I think it's okay to say these smaller communities, these quieter communities, these non-monetized communities, are real and important and they don't have to look anything like that and they can feel very different but they can still use the word community because we don't have another word for it.

Chanel Riggle (37:51.82)

We don't own the word.

Heidi Fiedler (37:55.095)

Ha ha ha!

Chanel Riggle (37:56.902)

Heidi, before we go, I have been asking every single person if there is one thing you would like to set down and one thing you would like to pick up in life in this current season. I know I've mentioned it. I'm really trying hard to set down bitterness and pick up more joy in turn. And I was wondering if there's anything that you can think of that you'd like to set down or pick up in the season.

Heidi Fiedler (38:27.422)

I would like to set down the responsibility or the feelings that I need to respond to everything. I'm really trying to practice in real life and in text, honestly, like just a very neutral hmm. So I don't have to necessarily express myself or my thoughts on something, especially if I don't agree with it. I can just let it go.

And something I would like to pick up.

The thing that came to mind is like, I'm really using my library card a lot right now. And it feels like kind of indulgent. Like there are only like so many things in the world where you can just get as many as you want and there's no cost and everyone's happy to see you when you walk in. And like, it took me maybe like 18 months, almost two years after we moved to this new house

and get logistically on top of that. But now that I do, I'm like, I just wanna check out A Million Books and it feels really good.

Chanel Riggle (39:35.572)

I love it.

Chanel Riggle (39:41.898)

I love the library. I've been going a lot more this probably like past six months and it's definitely become a family activity. Like if I need something to do with my daughter and it's just us, which happens a lot, you know, on Saturdays, my husband often has to work on Saturdays. And so I'll be like, okay.

We're going to the library. I'm gonna get myself a coffee. You can get a muffin. We make a little treat out of it. We go to the library. And my daughter has also been astonished by the fact, like, I can get these books? You can get as many books as you want. And we load up a big bag and just cannot believe it. So that's great. That makes me so happy.

Heidi Fiedler (40:35.255)

It's making me very happy too.

Chanel Riggle (40:37.946)

Everybody go build a community by going to the library. Yeah.

Heidi Fiedler (40:42.954)

That's like, that's an old school way for sure. And like, that's the perfect example too of like, I'm not actually going to any events at the library. Like maybe when I'm 70, that's what I'll do with my time, but like I can't do that right now. But I still feel like when I walk into the building, these are people that want to read, these are people that like talking about ideas. There is a shared interest in our town and like it being a nice place to live. And that...

Chanel Riggle (40:45.989)

Yes!

Chanel Riggle (40:54.386)

I'm sorry.

Heidi Fiedler (41:12.418)

Like that little thing can go a long way. It's just like smiling at the librarian and a silent acknowledgement, I have seen your face before, feels like, wow, yeah, this is kind of a community.

Chanel Riggle (41:26.134)

It is absolutely. It's amazing how welcoming we can feel in the library. Like you said, that's my silent acknowledgement. You know, like I've seen you before. We're all in a space where we want to be. It's pretty peaceful. There's just like shared knowledge here and peace.

Chanel Riggle (41:51.866)

Heidi, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been wonderful talking with you. I love that we really dove into the topic of creativity and libraries. I feel like I could talk to you for quite a bit longer, but I really wanna respect the time of you as well as our listeners. And the...

Chanel Riggle (42:17.222)

I'd rather. Thank you for joining me today in the space, online and sub stack at Motherhood Minute. I will be sure to include you in the episode as well as the full transcript. So if anybody has any questions or comments that they'd like to share with you, you will be notified about that. And I hope you have a wonderful day, everyone. Thank you so much.

Heidi Fiedler (42:46.338)

Thank you, Chanel.

Thank you for listening/reading to the series. Please leave a comment for Heidi and I if this resonated with you.